Another 4 Years of American Decline?

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Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Von Clausewitz » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:06 pm

I thought since we did not have enough controversy in this community maybe I should open a can of worms and get me some.

I, a permanent resident, not even a citizen of this great country, was distraught over yesterday's election results. I still could not believe that this country gave President Obama another term.

What i have seen in the last 4 years was the following:

1/ The most divisive and self absorbed president
2/ An economy that is barely growing
3/ A higher unemployment rate now than when the president took office
4/ A very hostile environment for business and crippling regulations
5/ A very unpopular government take over of healthcare
6/ The least transparent administration with a president and his whole administration lying through their teeth on TV to the public about Benghazi
7/ Complete disregard to the looming national debt that Obama single handedly almost doubled. He raised it from 10 to 16 trillions dollars
8/ The country dangerously close to a permanent welfare state

How did the people of this country vote for another 4 years of that?

What am I missing here? am I so clueless that I cannot see all the benefits of this administration?

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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Clinch » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:06 am

The people didnt vote. He basically got 1.1/5 people in America vote for him. Anyways, I dont understand it either.
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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Jerniga » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:44 am

Was a very depressing day for me all day:( I too am a bit uneasy about what happen yesterday with the election. Was a very sad day as our great nation is in decline.
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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Sloop » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:59 am

Give it up, you all lost 50 years ago with uncontrolled immigration, liberal control of the education system, and the ruling elite's domination of the media. You are all on your way out, the new America is now controlled by the new Americans. If you want to see who they are just spend an hour at Walmart or the welfare office.

Me?... I'm gonna milk Obama care, suck up as many entitlements as I can, and best of all get me a free Obamaphone!
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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Fullin » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:38 am

/ The country dangerously close to a permanent welfare state


Voila your explanation.

Once people get used to that , they dont want to loose it.

Its call populism, we are expert on that.
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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Von Clausewitz » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:09 am

[N]Jerniga wrote:Was a very depressing day for me all day:( I too am a bit uneasy about what happen yesterday with the election. Was a very sad day as our great nation is in decline.


It has been a depressing day for me too. I could barely concentrate on working.
I am not a citizen, I have barely been here a decade out of my 35 years, and I feel very invested.
I used to be politically active in my home country even when my party was underground and quasi persecuted.
I have had friends arrested next to me while distributing pamphlets and taken to jail by civilian clothed secret servicemen while I barely escaped. Even when the party became more popular and my candidates lost the rigged election I did not feel this sorrow.

Those people that voted for Obama, what did they base their vote on. I would really like to know.
Are they dumb? Ignorant? Or just plain moochers? Are this many people already receiving handouts?
Did they not watch any news? Do they not see the epic failures of this administration?

I also feel sorry for Romney. Initially I was not excited for him in republican primaries but as time went by I realized he is a gentlemen, and a very capable and astute businessman. He did not stoop low to personal attacks but stuck to a message only attacking a record and not a person. He is the kind of people the youth should looking to emulate, he should be a role model.
I am sorry he did not get a chance to lead this country and it is this country's loss.

The liberal media takes a big responsibility and is a complice to this crime of having Obama reelected.
I guess we will see if the people have the stomach for another 4 years like the previous 4.

During the 2008 elections, the people could be excused, they did not have a clue who Obama is, but what is there their excuse now?

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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby stilgar » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:01 am

This is an interesting topic, so if I may ...

Well, there was great deal of interest about the elections here in Europe. I've seen quite a few TV programma's covering various aspects of US society, economy in particular. Many here lived, worked, or have friends in US, so generally there is a great deal of understanding of challenges US faces.

I might not understand the reasons of your reaction on Obama's reelection, VC, but was there a better akternative? I do not see how Romney or republicans would make next 4 years other than years of decline. I agree that Obama was probably elected for the first run due lack of any competiton from republican camp and is far from a charismatic and sobre leader US needs right now. Romney did look like a better opponent and I felt Obama could loose as he more of a form than content, but "new americans" and probabaly quite a few "old americans" voted Obama in the end. You may see that differently, but if viewed from outside, Romney and the Republicans were simply too vague about how exactly they would get US out of the current financial situation.

Btw, I agree on the comment of "new americans" taking over, and accumulation of issues, which had to be addressed years ago. Well, this is not just US problem, it is pretty much characteristic to western world. Additionally, US is no more big or strong enough to swim against globalization and global trends. Economical recovery is no more solely in hands of americans, although their fate is still in their hands.
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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Wym » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:40 pm

Here in the UK The election was well covered...... and most reports used the words 'Land Slide' to describe Obama's victory & 2nd term??

Personally my main interest is America's foreign policy?? is it a definite that Iran will receive the wrath of the U.S war-machine in the next 4 months all be it 'minimal surgical strikes'? Are you guys that close to another middle east campaign? or is this over-hyped? How do u guys feel about another conflict especially with Iran?
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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Von Clausewitz » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:45 pm

stilgar wrote:This is an interesting topic, so if I may ...


Sure you may, i am always interested in hearing people's opinion in these things

Well, there was great deal of interest about the elections here in Europe. I've seen quite a few TV programma's covering various aspects of US society, economy in particular. Many here lived, worked, or have friends in US, so generally there is a great deal of understanding of challenges US faces.


I would caution you about taking all that you hear in the european media as truths, usually European media have strong biases against Republicans who see the European socialist model as a failed model and want to prevent the USA from following that path. I recently read a few editorials in "the Guardian", i have never seen anything more biased, i was about to puke.

I might not understand the reasons of your reaction on Obama's reelection, VC, but was there a better akternative?


Yes Romney was definitely better.

I do not see how Romney or republicans would make next 4 years other than years of decline. I agree that Obama was probably elected for the first run due lack of any competiton from republican camp and is far from a charismatic and sobre leader US needs right now. Romney did look like a better opponent and I felt Obama could loose as he more of a form than content, but "new americans" and probabaly quite a few "old americans" voted Obama in the end. You may see that differently, but if viewed from outside, Romney and the Republicans were simply too vague about how exactly they would get US out of the current financial situation.


So many things to say here.
1/ Romney was not vague about what he would do, he had pages of plans for the economy on the website, few people bother to go read those. You cannot go into much detail in a debate, you will lose your audience. A majority of americans have no clue about some economy concepts, a majority now does not even know how to balance it's household budget, they buy stuff they cannot afford, they get in debt, they spend all that they make.... Getting into lengthy economic lectures will bore people and lose them.
I cannot even get my wife to listen to me for 5 min about our expenses and my worries for our future, after 2 min of talking politics she is bored as hell and she is a smart and educated woman, but she represents the majority of the people of this country. They are uninformed and they vote on likability.

2/ Obama had no plan himself for the next 4 years. All his campaign was about demonizing Romney, in such thug ways that should be well below the office of the presidency. He ran the dirtiest campaign ever recorded, not promising any hope or change anymore, but just denigrating a good man. Where ws his plan for a better future?

3/The USA does not need a charismatic sterile leader who cannot get anything done, not only that, he is slowing the recovery in this country. What the USA needs is a leader that knows how to lead and get things done.
Romney build a company from the ground up, he is a self made man, he made millions. The wealth his father left him, he gave to charity. He helped turn around failing companies and made them profitable, companies like 'Staples' that is household name in the USA.
He saved the Olympics in Utah at a time where everything was going badly, he was a governor of a democratic state, he worked with the democratic legislature to improve the state, reduced its 3 billion dollar deficit and left it with a 2 billion dollar surplus.
That is an impressive resume, what achievement could obama claim? He wrote 2 auto biographies without having accomplished anything?

Btw, I agree on the comment of "new americans" taking over, and accumulation of issues, which had to be addressed years ago. Well, this is not just US problem, it is pretty much characteristic to western world. Additionally, US is no more big or strong enough to swim against globalization and global trends. Economical recovery is no more solely in hands of americans, although their fate is still in their hands.


The reason the United States remained a beacon of hope for others, people like me who would have had a much easier time going to Europe but chose the long and hard way but come to the united states, was because of the free market policies they have.
It is also because they believe in the right of the individual and not the collective. It is because of the atmosphere that let's you pursue whatever you fancy, you might fail but you might strike oil and become filthy rich.
There is social mobility in the USA, you can be dirt poor and become wealthy in this country, it is not so in Europe, at least not in a legal process.
This president and the democratic party are turning this country into a country of moochers. They promise people free stuff, they tell them it is their right to get free stuff and it should be 'FAIR' to get the money to pay for it from people that work.
When the balance tips, and this is close, where there are more moochers than producers, we are going to be in a world of hurt, like in greece and other European economies. My gut feeling says that unless something changes, unless this president starting caring about our national debt and stop adding to it, we will be greece in 4 years.

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Re: Another 4 Years of American Decline?

Postby [N]Von Clausewitz » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:53 pm

Wym wrote:Here in the UK The election was well covered...... and most reports used the words 'Land Slide' to describe Obama's victory & 2nd term??


If you look at the electoral college you might think it was a landslide, if you look at how narrowly each state was won, most of them with less than 100 000 vote difference, you see that it was not a landslide.
Again, as i was telling Stilgar, a lot of the European media is biased.

Personally my main interest is America's foreign policy?? is it a definite that Iran will receive the wrath of the U.S war-machine in the next 4 months all be it 'minimal surgical strikes'? Are you guys that close to another middle east campaign? or is this over-hyped? How do u guys feel about another conflict especially with Iran?


This is over hyped, no one has the stomach for another campaign like that, no one has the money to do it, thanks to obama. It remains true however that a nuclear armed iran means a more dangerous world to live in.
Hopefully crippling economic sanctions would work, otherwise who knows...

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